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"Cash"
Jan 3, 2010 23:38:55 GMT -5
Post by leahlady on Jan 3, 2010 23:38:55 GMT -5
Yes, but for people who don't know the whole story, or don't have time to read all those posts to figure out the situation, it just seems like a bunch of arguing crazies on the SAFE board. It has nothing to do with SAFE so I think the conversation belongs elsewhere.
The drama surrounding horse rescue is so incredibly tiring, and SAFE has worked hard to get away from it by being an honest, transparent, consistent organization. We all know that. So let's keep SAFE safe from this - because we know that every conversation like this only hurts that effort.
Please let this board be for SAFE.
Ok, off soapbox.
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"Cash"
Jan 3, 2010 23:48:54 GMT -5
Post by pk on Jan 3, 2010 23:48:54 GMT -5
In fact in my PM's to WLF and PK I asked them what the history with GLA was other than her having too many horses and unfit stallion containment. I would have welcomed someone pm'ing me this post previously. I don't know anything about GLA other than what I've read and what she has sent me in PM. She has stated before that she had too many horses at her facility and could not afford to care for them all, yet she took in more. As I stated before, I've chosen not to get involved with the drama associated with the auction site or other rescue activity. My focus is on my own personal horses and providing the best possible care for them (in addition to my boarders). I am a firm believer that quality is more important than quantity. When we purchased our farm we set a limit on how many horses we could adequately care for here. In my opinion, everyone involved in rescue or horse ownership should do the same. People also need to learn when to say “No”, otherwise they have become hoarders instead of rescuers.
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"Cash"
Jan 4, 2010 0:16:20 GMT -5
Post by Sara on Jan 4, 2010 0:16:20 GMT -5
You know... I did not know the history of this horse, so I just spent some time looking into this. Apparently Cash was gotten long before the Auction Horses board even existed, and that is why I couldn't find any originating info there... Here's the first thread I can find about him in case anyone else is in the dark about the beginning of it all. schwung.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=genchat&action=display&thread=5533&page=1He wasn't an auction horse- he was a 'free on craigsist" horse. The "free on craigslist" horses that have been "rescued" have also been a source of many issues for SAFE simply by association to this board so the area of this board dedicated to that was shut down. And yet, despite the repeated requests by the SAFE BOD to take discussion of auction train wrecks and craigslist trainwrecks elsewhere, the discussion continues. There are so many other places to have these kinds of discussions. Why can't this board, owned and operated by SAFE, be dedicated to the SAFE horses, SAFE mission, and how to support that? As a safe supporter and volunteer, I love coming here and seeing updates about current and past rescues. I'd hate to see that ruined by discussions like this. So, I'm asking, nicely, for those of you who want to continue to oggle over the trainwrecks to PLEASE, PLEASE, PLEASE take it elsewhere. Please?
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"Cash"
Jan 4, 2010 8:43:08 GMT -5
Post by cyann100 on Jan 4, 2010 8:43:08 GMT -5
I know some of you want this discussion to end, but I just had to say this: When I looked at the craigslist ad for Cash, for some reason he really stood out to me and I thought, dispite his downfalls (older, not so well trained, etc...) I wish I could take him in. I even asked on the thread how much it would cost to geld him, and I played out in my mind how I could begin training on him and where I could board him. I even showed my boyfriend his picture and told him how great I thought he was. I don't know why, there are many more horses out there that are better and would be more suitable for me, but I'm sure some of you know, certain horses just grab at you. I came back to reality though. My job is a bit unstable for that sort of cost, plus I'm too much of a beginner to take on more than I'm capable of. (under nourished, untrained stallions especially) What I'm getting at, is that some people need to face reallity. I was so sad to hear of the death of this horse and how sensless and unneccessary it was! It is very clear that the best interest of this horse was not at the forefront. The way I see it, this horse may have well as gone to slaughter. It was cheated of it's life. The reality is, the person who this horse was in the care of, I don't think you help horses at all. I think you only help you. Accidents happen, that's for sure, but this certainly could have been prevented.
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Buena
SAFE Volunteer
No horse will ever teach you as much as your first horse.
Posts: 1,929
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"Cash"
Jan 4, 2010 10:36:13 GMT -5
Post by Buena on Jan 4, 2010 10:36:13 GMT -5
I know some of you want this discussion to end, but I just had to say this: When I looked at the craigslist ad for Cash, for some reason he really stood out to me and I thought, dispite his downfalls (older, not so well trained, etc...) I wish I could take him in. I even asked on the thread how much it would cost to geld him, and I played out in my mind how I could begin training on him and where I could board him. I even showed my boyfriend his picture and told him how great I thought he was. I don't know why, there are many more horses out there that are better and would be more suitable for me, but I'm sure some of you know, certain horses just grab at you. I came back to reality though. My job is a bit unstable for that sort of cost, plus I'm too much of a beginner to take on more than I'm capable of. (under nourished, untrained stallions especially) What I'm getting at, is that some people need to face reallity. I was so sad to hear of the death of this horse and how sensless and unneccessary it was! It is very clear that the best interest of this horse was not at the forefront. The way I see it, this horse may have well as gone to slaughter. It was cheated of it's life. The reality is, the person who this horse was in the care of, I don't think you help horses at all. I think you only help you. Accidents happen, that's for sure, but this certainly could have been prevented. My thoughts exactly. On all of what you said. And additionally, this SHOULD have been prevented. It should never have happened, any of it. The greed of the human gets in the way again.
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"Cash"
Jan 4, 2010 12:24:50 GMT -5
Post by fanaberia on Jan 4, 2010 12:24:50 GMT -5
I agree that this "accident" was entirely preventable. Really to me, there's really no good excuse for this happening. This shouldn't happen.
As far as the sale goes; I agree with you guys that this should have never happened.... but is there any way to really prevent it?
She's going to get any horse she wants, since there's plenty out there for free. Even if she had castrated him to start with, the chance of him getting in a brawl were still there since the hormones would still be in his system. (Keep in mind that since he was so skinny, it would have been risky to castrate him right at the time she bought him.) Also, since she's seeing this as a freak accident, I doubt that serious measures will be taken to secure the barn.
As sad as his story is, chances are that it will happen again. It may happen at a different person's home, but it will repeat. And there's really not all that much anyone can do. Responsible people or rescues can't take in every horse that's at risk, and sellers are willing to dump there horses off to anyone because they can't afford them. That's the reality of life. I'm dealing with two abandoned horses right now that should not be in the home they are in under any circumstance, and I begged one of the former owners not to sell the horse, but in the long run the horse ended up where she did.
I guess the moral of the story is that free craigslist horses don't find "good homes" (with a few exceptions.) Free craigslist stallions find them even less frequently.
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"Cash"
Jan 4, 2010 13:58:17 GMT -5
Post by hollynanne on Jan 4, 2010 13:58:17 GMT -5
Whew! That site has gotten a little scary... I was on it and de-activated myself yesterday. After Cash's 'accident', I'm not sure I want to be associated with an "organization" (for lack of a better word...) that has no organization... It was getting strange and scary over there yesterday...
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"Cash"
Jan 4, 2010 15:11:26 GMT -5
Post by mytwoponies on Jan 4, 2010 15:11:26 GMT -5
I agree that this "accident" was entirely preventable. Really to me, there's really no good excuse for this happening. This shouldn't happen. As far as the sale goes; I agree with you guys that this should have never happened.... but is there any way to really prevent it? She's going to get any horse she wants, since there's plenty out there for free. Even if she had castrated him to start with, the chance of him getting in a brawl were still there since the hormones would still be in his system. (Keep in mind that since he was so skinny, it would have been risky to castrate him right at the time she bought him.) Also, since she's seeing this as a freak accident, I doubt that serious measures will be taken to secure the barn. As sad as his story is, chances are that it will happen again. It may happen at a different person's home, but it will repeat. And there's really not all that much anyone can do. Responsible people or rescues can't take in every horse that's at risk, and sellers are willing to dump there horses off to anyone because they can't afford them. That's the reality of life. I'm dealing with two abandoned horses right now that should not be in the home they are in under any circumstance, and I begged one of the former owners not to sell the horse, but in the long run the horse ended up where she did. I guess the moral of the story is that free craigslist horses don't find "good homes" (with a few exceptions.) Free craigslist stallions find them even less frequently. I can't agree more. There are some things we can & cannot change and some things that can & cannot be prevented. This horse would have ended up being passed around from one bad home to another. It seems like once they get into that auction/CL pipeline that's where they stay. I was surprised to see the very same auction/feedlot horses auction back up on CL "must sell" within a few days. If they didn't sell then, why would anyone want them now? Plus many have unknown issues like health and lack of basic training/handling. It's just seems like a disaster over & over again. I also just got another horse even though I really didn't want one. They listed him on CL for cheap and I could not bare the thought of him getting into that kind of bad home pipeline (as I have known him since the day he was born). It was not a decision I took lightly. Just like our other horses, we have to be prepared to spend whatever it takes and keep them for the long term because there is no guarantee that there will ever be a market for them. What I don't like is continually reading people defending their actions as "lesson learned". These are living beings! Horses should not have to die in your care so you can learn your lesson. What I appreciate about SAFE is they are one of the few rescues that takes complete responsibility of teeth, shots, extra feed, gelding, safe stalls/fencing, training & evaluation. Regardless if it's a rescue or not, those are just basics if you want to sell or re-home your horse to a quality home.
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"Cash"
Jan 4, 2010 15:40:21 GMT -5
Post by fanaberia on Jan 4, 2010 15:40:21 GMT -5
I know!!!! I can't stand when people grab these horses in hopes that "maybe this will work out." And then... well, maybe since I paid NOTHING I can breed it and make a couple hundred bucks.
I'll be honest, I was really impressed with something I saw on SAFE. I think the financials were low in Nov or Dec. Not only was the organization prepared with back up money BUT several people stepped up and organized fun events that made extra funds.
Now, there are people that can adopt horses off of craigslist or somewhere else and be great homes. We have several of them here. But it unfortunately seems to be a few and far between thing... look at poor Wishes, she was a "free" craigslist horse as well!
I think craigslist should set up something called "So free it's bound to be killed, injured, or starves to death!!!!"
And I couldn't agree with you more on the lesson learned crap. It is a living animal, not an object. It makes me as sick as someone purchasing a yearling for a child and throwing that "they can learn together" thing out. Yuck.
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"Cash"
Jan 4, 2010 17:03:56 GMT -5
Post by kristimeng on Jan 4, 2010 17:03:56 GMT -5
Ok i Know this will be deleted and ill be banned but here it is. I have had nothing to do with Cash. I feel that it is a sad situation but not my horse so it isnt my place to talk about. I have only had 2 accounts the lost souls screen name is not me. Just clerifying. And i do not rescue horse all i do is help network. So stop bashing me. Im not getting into the Caddy thing all over again that was almost 2 years ago and my exs horse. So drop that. I dont hide my background I tell the people I meet and work with about all the things that have been said about me. SO do not lump me in and say im a horder or killing horses. I dont bash any of you even when i dont agree with the things others do. I have done nothing and asked nothing of anyone so why dont you all get off your soap boxes and leave me out of things that do not involve me. Please and thank you.
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"Cash"
Jan 4, 2010 17:17:36 GMT -5
Post by fanaberia on Jan 4, 2010 17:17:36 GMT -5
Ok i Know this will be deleted and ill be banned but here it is. I have had nothing to do with Cash. I feel that it is a sad situation but not my horse so it isnt my place to talk about. I have only had 2 accounts the lost souls screen name is not me. Just clerifying. And i do not rescue horse all i do is help network. So stop bashing me. Im not getting into the Caddy thing all over again that was almost 2 years ago and my exs horse. So drop that. I dont hide my background I tell the people I meet and work with about all the things that have been said about me. SO do not lump me in and say im a horder or killing horses. I dont bash any of you even when i dont agree with the things others do. I have done nothing and asked nothing of anyone so why dont you all get off your soap boxes and leave me out of things that do not involve me. Please and thank you. Time to close the thread? Having this post come up is like I would imagine it would feel like to have herpes. This is a very sad case, but maybe it's better laid to rest before it gets turned into the battle that is raging on the auction board.
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"Cash"
Jan 4, 2010 17:24:44 GMT -5
Post by kristimeng on Jan 4, 2010 17:24:44 GMT -5
Im not trying to bring drama I just want people to know I had nothing to do with Cash. And i have taken the advice of the people on here from before and now the only way i try to help with rescues is to advertise online or volunteer to clean stalls. I learned from you all that if not financialy able a person is not helping or rescuing. So i dont, i just offer to help others. Exactly as you all told me to do. So please dont lump me in with other people... Ive done nothing with this horse. I saw him one time. That is all. and also refering to a person as herpes is very hurtful. How can one get better without support. Ive changed, even if you dont beleive me. So thank you those of you who offered me help and advice in the past
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cricket
Full BB Member
SAFE Adopter
Dox and Ariel
Posts: 244
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"Cash"
Jan 4, 2010 17:58:06 GMT -5
Post by cricket on Jan 4, 2010 17:58:06 GMT -5
I know!!!! I can't stand when people grab these horses in hopes that "maybe this will work out." And then... well, maybe since I paid NOTHING I can breed it and make a couple hundred bucks. I'll be honest, I was really impressed with something I saw on SAFE. I think the financials were low in Nov or Dec. Not only was the organization prepared with back up money BUT several people stepped up and organized fun events that made extra funds. Now, there are people that can adopt horses off of craigslist or somewhere else and be great homes. We have several of them here. But it unfortunately seems to be a few and far between thing... look at poor Wishes, she was a "free" craigslist horse as well! I think craigslist should set up something called "So free it's bound to be killed, injured, or starves to death!!!!" And I couldn't agree with you more on the lesson learned crap. It is a living animal, not an object. It makes me as sick as someone purchasing a yearling for a child and throwing that "they can learn together" thing out. Yuck. I don't think it's fair to judge a whole group of people together. I think of the auction site as another craigslist that's just for horses. Buyer AND Seller beware. I think the lesson learned should be: do your research no matter where you're advertising a horse. Check up on potential buyers regardless of how you're selling/giving away a horse. Didn't Jean Elledge pay over $7,000 for your stud? Look what happened to him. I don't think it necessarily matters how much a horse's purchase price is. There's never a guarantee that it's a good home if that's all you go by. I've aquired my horses through various channels (including through SAFE and the auction). I have a horse up on the auction site because it's free exposure for her. I've had people ask about her, but the funny thing is, when I ask for their references, the horse is suddenly too small, too old, or whatever for them . Just because I have her up on that site, doesn't mean I'm going to dump her on the first person that wants her.
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"Cash"
Jan 4, 2010 18:07:33 GMT -5
Post by fanaberia on Jan 4, 2010 18:07:33 GMT -5
I wasn't trying to judge the entire group. But reality is that most of those "free" horses on craigslist (not all of them) don't go to great homes.
Yes, Elledge paid over $7500 for my guy, but I bet you bucks that she at some point proclaimed to have "saved" something she later bred.
I'm sure you are carefully placing your horse, but the reality is that right now there are plenty of people dumping rather than placing :-(
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"Cash"
Jan 4, 2010 19:30:26 GMT -5
Post by mytwoponies on Jan 4, 2010 19:30:26 GMT -5
My point was that there seems to be a low-end "pipeline" of horses going from auction/rescue/CL or home that does not improve their situation just like a round table. I've seen some of the same people & horses posted off & on for years that have never even been mentioned here. I really tried to have faith that these guys would find these great forever homes. But then they are let down yet again, year after year. The only thing that works is breaking the cycle. Make that horse look so good & so well trained that nobody would know that they were a former starving/free/cheap horse. To do that takes a lot of dedication, work, time & money. It's just not for everyone.
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