honeydofarm
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Post by honeydofarm on Mar 25, 2010 10:12:10 GMT -5
I have a friend in England with a 23 year old mare that was diagnosed with Cushings a month ago, tested 58 on the scale. The vet started her on 1mg Pergolide. Since then she has gone off her feed and has been somewhat disoriented. The vet just cut her down to .5mg. Sadie has foundered in the past, so she has been giving her low cal feed and low cal sugar beet mix, both of which she has been only picking at, which is extremely unusual as she is normally a vigorous eater.
Understanding there are differences in feed supplies over there, does anyone have any suggestions to stimulate her appetite or any other suggestions for her in regards to this recent diagnosis? I have sent her along the two links to the NW Cushings forums already. This horse means everything to my friend and she would do anything to prolong her healthy life. She is only turned out at night and her pasture has grass, but it is golf course height. She is on grass type hay, appears to be similar to our local grass. She also receives supplements and garlic.
Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!
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Post by schwung on Mar 25, 2010 10:21:19 GMT -5
The only thing I could suggest would be to have the vet do bloodwork again. The Pergolide might not be doing its job, but it also sounds to me like there is something else going on unrelated to the Cushings. How are her kidneys? Any excessive drinking or peeing? Anorexia is a common side effect of kidney failure. But really, this could just be her time. At the point at which my horse with kidney failure stopped eating our vet advised to throw his specialized diet out the window and just give him whatever he would eat. For a little while alfalfa kick-started his appetite but soon he wouldn't even eat sweet feed at which point I had to let him go.
I would start with bloodwork to see if there is more than just Cushings going on.
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honeydofarm
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Post by honeydofarm on Mar 25, 2010 10:33:58 GMT -5
The vet re-took a complete bloodwork on Tuesday. She did have excessive peeing/drinking in December, which subsided in a few weeks on its own, before she was diagnosed. She has been completely healthy other than that, right up until she went on Pergolide. My friend did not mention a problem with the kidneys at the time of the diagnosis, will see what shows up this time. Hopefully, the fact that the appetite change was sudden and corresponding to the administering of meds, the reduction will help.
Thanks for the input.
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Post by zeesmom on Mar 25, 2010 11:14:32 GMT -5
I have a 26 year old gelding that has had cushings for 4 years. He is on 2mg of pergolide.
Pergolide can affect a horse's appetite. Usually horses with untreated cushings have really good appetites because of the disease. The pergolide puts things back in balance so to speak and can decrease the appetite.
I have had difficulty getting my gelding to eat in the past. I have tried everything under the sun from LMF low carb to grass hay pellets to beet pulp and at one point the only time I could get him to eat was when I would mix a handful of sweet feed and some alfalfa into his beet pulp and LMF. It wasn't ideal because of the sugar but it was what worked for awhile.
Unfortunately his disease has progressed to the point that the pergolide is no longer helping and his appetite has been fantastic. He eats his LMF with no problems now. Because of his deterioration I have made an appointment to have him euthanized.
Hopefully her vet can get things sorted out and she can find a way to get her horse to eat. I had to resort to mixing in some feeds he shouldn't have been getting but it was the only way I could get him to eat.
Sending good wishes to your friend.
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Buena
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Post by Buena on Mar 25, 2010 11:54:18 GMT -5
Is it possible that the horse is having a laminitic episode or has abscesses brewing? Sudden loss of appetite could be attributed to pain. Also might be an ulcer. Just other things to consider. I would make sure that she put her horse on a probiotic if she hasn't done that already.
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Post by fototropic on Mar 25, 2010 20:43:38 GMT -5
What a coincidence. I have a 23 year old gelding who was diagnosed with Cushings in January. He lost his appetite when we started him on pergolide also. It is a side effect of pergolide. Sometimes you have to back way, way down on the pergolide and build up gradually so as to avoid the anorexia. Sometimes when a horse has stopped eating due to the pergolide they actually have to stop the meds for a few days to get them eating, then start again with very small doses, increasing the amount gradually until they get to a good level. I know no one wants to stop the meds, but the horse had survived for some time with Cushings before diagnosis and a few days to a couple of weeks to start them gradually is worth it. My guy, Storm, had dropped a huge amount of weight over about 3 months time, about 200 lb. When he stopped eating with the pergolide I panicked, but we cut it back and started up again gradually and he started eating again. Fortunately the pergolide is worth the trade-off because he has put a substantial amount of weight back on, in the winter, no less.
Although Storm did start eating again, his appetite isn't what it used to be before the pergolide. He never used to be picky. Now if there is anything he doesn't like about his grain, he won't eat. It was a real challenge to find a form of pergolide that I could get into him. I started with peppermint flavored liquid. I got it into him from a syringe twice. After that I had to use significant amounts of molasses with a large bucket of beet pulp. Luckily he isn't insulin resistant. Now I am using peppermint flavored Gourmeds. He gets 1/2 a tablet broken up into his grain. I have to also cut up small pieces of carrots into his grain so he can't single out the different texture of the tablet crumbs and stop eating. For anyone with a Cushings horse, the Gourmeds are a terrific deal. I'm paying $54 for a 60 day supply of pergolide (1 mg. daily). The Gourmeds are from a compounding pharmacy in Colorado. I got them delivered to Vermont 2 days after my order and that wasn't rush service, just a regular order.
Pam
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Post by cutiepiepmu on Mar 27, 2010 5:04:27 GMT -5
Pergolide can cause some horses to go off feed for a while, some perminantely. There are some other medication options that might work better. The other thing I can suggest is to do IM injections of B-12 and B-Complex. Some Cushings horses may have issues with the b-12, so be aware of that. But, B-vitamins can help stimulate appetite. i DO recommend using ONLY the powdered caps fo the pergolide. Make into solution with some sterile saline or simple sterile water just before dosing. The reason for this is shelf life. While vets don't always know this and often times it is not discussed - the potency for pergolide goes down by nearly half when sitting in the liquid suspension for 20 days. Depending on what else is in the soltion(ie., flavorin) it can shorten it even more. If you get the powdered caps and form the liquid just before dosing it holds it's potency for much longer - the other perk, is that the powder is cheaper Flavorings can help with some horses. Sugar Free jello, sugar free soda, sugar free candies, cinnamon(good anyways for blood sugar) or other herbs. Try to wean the horse off of the soda/jello rather than long term. BUT it does work for some. My horse with cushings also would like sugar free maple syrup, Doritos nacho cheese chips(very small handfull crumbled in feed when times got desperate!), and - fresh grass mixed with the food. It can be very challenging keeping them eating. I encourage you to join the Equine Cushings group o yahoo message boards. Very helpful. Sara
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honeydofarm
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Post by honeydofarm on Apr 6, 2010 17:12:35 GMT -5
I wanted to thank everyone for their input. My friend just got her horse's blood work back and it looks good, well within normal range and kidney function is fine. Cutting her meds back has restored her appetite and the disorientation is gone.
I passed along all of your suggestions. Thanks again for all of your help.
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equus
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Post by equus on Apr 13, 2010 16:55:48 GMT -5
Hi, my 28 year old icelandic had 5 years cushings and was treated with pergolide. Unfortunally she did get bad laminitis again and was put down. I have 90 1mg pergolide tablets left, expire11/2010. I am happy to sent them to someone who has a horse with cushings and uses pergolide. I hope to help someone as I know the tablets are expensive. I do not want money for them. Please sent an email to jejosi@aol.com.
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Post by schwung on Apr 13, 2010 18:01:29 GMT -5
Hi Equus - we have two Cushings horses here at SAFE and would happily take them!
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Post by malina on Apr 13, 2010 21:24:31 GMT -5
My mare did really well on Cyproheptadine, just my 2 cents... and it smells sooo good
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equus
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Post by equus on Apr 14, 2010 3:26:57 GMT -5
I will sent them to you, can you sent your address to my email? jejosi@aol.com. I live in Sweden so it might take a week or so to arrive.
My horse was diagnosed with cushings 5 years ago. I noticed that the hair around the tail did not shed well. Than she got severe laminitis in both front legs. After butt powder and painkillers she was put on pergolide. I also tried several herbal options (casta... whatever it is called) it appeared to work well but after stopping pergolide she got laminitis again. It was also difficult to feed her as she did not like it and refused food whenever she smelled it. I was desperate at times as she had bad anorexia, and to keep her weight on was difficult. I indeed took her back to 1 mg and she started eating again, than put it back to 2 mg. She did have several absesses in her hoofs over the years. I have never been able to ride her properly after the diagnoses. She was no longer lame but stumbled often and her gates were less 'free'. Until last summer I let children ride her sometimes, as they were light she did have no problems. It is a bit unclear ofcourse as some of the stiffness can be explained by her age. She has been without any 'problems' for the last 18 months (exept one episode of not eatimg) of her life, she was still playing with my other horses 3 days before I found her standing in the stable with my other mare. She is about to foal and the stable has a thick bed of straw. The next day she was still more in the stable than outside, and when I made her go out I realised that she did have laminitis again in both back legs. This is not related to diet as she only got hay, we still have snow and not a bit green grass! She would have been 29 this spring, and after so many years medication I nor the vet do not think there was more what could be done. It was still unexpected even I knew that this moment probably would arrive. Anyway I wish everyone with horses with cushins the best, I know from experience that it does not mean that the horse is written off in a short time. With the right management horses with cushings can have a good quality of life in my case for another 5 years. I can recommend the book 'Paddock Paradise' from Jaime Jackson, this makes the management of a laminatic horse so much more easy. Good luck to everyone.
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Post by schwung on Apr 14, 2010 15:16:03 GMT -5
Hi again Equus, I will send email you our address here at SAFE. So sorry to hear about the loss of your mare, but glad to hear she had such a good long life wiht you and it sounds like excellent care along the way. I have to ask, what is "butt powder"
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equus
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Post by equus on Apr 14, 2010 16:59:26 GMT -5
I wrote it wrong it is bute, Equipalazone powder (phenybutazone) basically a strong painkiller. I have not received any messages on the site, maybe I look wrong but at the top page it says messages 0.
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Post by schwung on Apr 14, 2010 17:12:04 GMT -5
haha...bute powder makes a lot more sense! ;D
I'm going to have you send it directly to our foster home that has both our Cushings horses, Buckwheat and Summer. I'll have to dig up the address and then I will PM it do you. Thanks!
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