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"Cash"
Jan 1, 2010 12:42:50 GMT -5
Post by fototropic on Jan 1, 2010 12:42:50 GMT -5
That sounds pretty good. Sort of what I thought. It is tragic that this poor horse had to go out of the frying pan into the fire. It would be very, very hard to argue that this was better than going to a kill buyer.
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"Cash"
Jan 1, 2010 14:10:06 GMT -5
Post by pk on Jan 1, 2010 14:10:06 GMT -5
And A rescuer gelds studs and adopts mares out with no breeding contracts. A hoarder breeds more animals even though there is no market for them (except with the meat buyers).
What does one do with an Oldenburg-Arab cross anyway?
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"Cash"
Jan 1, 2010 16:04:59 GMT -5
Post by drsgjunky on Jan 1, 2010 16:04:59 GMT -5
What does one do with an Oldenburg-Arab cross anyway? One word - Ron. He'll take any cross-bred.
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shekaberry
SAFE Volunteer
SAFE Volunteer Coordinator
Posts: 1,521
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"Cash"
Jan 1, 2010 18:53:43 GMT -5
Post by shekaberry on Jan 1, 2010 18:53:43 GMT -5
Its unfortunate that she is breeding her. The foal would only be registerable as a half-breed, and couldn't be registered as a WB, rght? Not much of a market fo those as the auction reports have shown. Sad.
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"Cash"
Jan 1, 2010 19:57:10 GMT -5
Post by schwung on Jan 1, 2010 19:57:10 GMT -5
In most WB registries both the sire and dam have to be inspected and approved in order to be registered, and there are few non-WB approved stallions in any of the WB registries.
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"Cash"
Jan 1, 2010 20:07:23 GMT -5
Post by fanaberia on Jan 1, 2010 20:07:23 GMT -5
I wonder how the other two horses are.... her other stallion and the mare?
I can't imagine that they were completely fine after the incident.
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"Cash"
Jan 1, 2010 20:38:02 GMT -5
Post by drsgjunky on Jan 1, 2010 20:38:02 GMT -5
The foal would only be registerable as a half-breed, and couldn't be registered as a WB, rght? Not a chance. The stallion wasn't approved by a registry. A pointless breeding as far as any Warmblood distinction goes. The point to registries is to breed the best to the best. You don't breed willy-nilly just cause you have all the right body parts gathered in the backyard. Both the mare and stallion must be approved in one (or more) registries to register the offspring. This is sort of a good general explanation. www.sonestafarms.com/wbinfo.htm
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"Cash"
Jan 1, 2010 21:04:47 GMT -5
Post by fanaberia on Jan 1, 2010 21:04:47 GMT -5
I showed Arabian Sporthorse this year (and last year). Most of the half arab crosses are saddlebred mixes that are primarily Arabians. Crossing them with other breeds seems to be largely unpopular, although I'm not sure exactly why. EDITED TO ADD: I think I know why. Compared to European standards, there aren't all that many great warmbloods here. (I was really taken aback when I moved here from Europe. We just didn't have the behavior and lameness issues there to the extent here!) Who would waste a great mare cross breeding a great to a breed that doesn't hold as much market value? So we are breeding bottom of the barrel warmblood mares to Arab stallions thus creating (in most cases) a piece of valueless crap. I think a lot of people jumped on the half-arab warmblood thing for sporthorse since that's the only division that's really growing right now. However, I think that growth is pretty short lived since Nationals is moving permanently to Kentucky this year and will be just as expensive as the other Nationals. I love Arabs, but it takes two really outstanding horses to make a great cross. This is an Arabian sporthorse: www.youtube.com/watch?v=erQJI6DCFL8&feature=related(BTW, it's hilarious how excited Conrad Schumacher about this horses wonderful medium...)
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"Cash"
Jan 1, 2010 22:13:54 GMT -5
Post by drsgjunky on Jan 1, 2010 22:13:54 GMT -5
Goes to show how old I'm getting. I didn't realize Lindsey was riding Arabs these days. Maybe I need to move up north (again). What a nice boy and so solid.
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"Cash"
Jan 2, 2010 0:05:19 GMT -5
Post by fanaberia on Jan 2, 2010 0:05:19 GMT -5
Yup, Lindsey is doing Arabs. She rides several of the Kellem's Arabians and half-Arabs. But this horse is really amazing. He would have very likely not cut it anywhere else on the breed circuit since he's on the shorter side and isn't incredibly typey. So it's cool they found his calling and have taken him so far. He competes in USDF (open) too, or has just started to anyway. Great career ahead for this guy and Lindsey.
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"Cash"
Jan 3, 2010 14:32:22 GMT -5
Post by winterlakesfarm on Jan 3, 2010 14:32:22 GMT -5
This mess is precisely why I was so angry a few months ago when people were "rescuing" horses and refusing to contact AC. And why I and so many others thought the "auction rescue site" was a nightmare in the making with backyard breeders, animal abusers and hoarders(yellowhorsesinc, gla paints, eternityrider etc) populating it. By the way I understand Amanda and Shelly are seeking each other out on the auction board.........Both are dumping horses they never could afford. Nothing like a matchmaking site for hoarders and backyard breeders. I bet if we went and took pictures of both of their horses and places you could freely interchange them, crappy fencing, crappy feet, poor body condition, bred mares, want to bet they have lice and rain rot issues? ? Come on.......no one wants to bet? I can guarantee you it is a given. Hey Amanda - Shelly had a stud get put down from a broken leg from a brawl with another stud this last year too!!!!! You two deserve each other. So let me get this right. The TB's that were "rescued" need hay and re-rescuing from the "rescue" they went to....... The WB mare that was "rescued"( we all knew where this was headed as soon as the dumbass back yard breeder told us she bought her) is now bred by a midget arab stallion with no show record(well we all predicted this horse would be covering mares despite all the discussion as to why it should not happen- golly gee we were right) to his name to prevent the foal from needing "rescue" or filling the belly of someone in Canada or EU The arab stallion who was "rescued" is now dead from a brawl with a fugly cremello with no show record who has numerous "crazy color" foals coming this year from equally fugly mares...... My prediction(I have been 100% dead{sic} on so far as to the impending futures of all of these horses)for 2010? ? My newest prediction is the Fugly Cremello Stud owner will probably not be so quick to sign off on papers for said "Fug-ello" get as I am sure he did not come out unscathed from the brawl. More horses to be "rescued" from Ron's next year!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! The "Truck is coming" "truck is coming" mentality has landed these horses where they are. I would plead with people to stop this crap and support established rescues with proven track records.
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kl
Full BB Member
Posts: 102
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"Cash"
Jan 3, 2010 15:32:39 GMT -5
Post by kl on Jan 3, 2010 15:32:39 GMT -5
... And why I and so many others thought the "auction rescue site" was a nightmare in the making with backyard breeders, animal abusers and hoarders(yellowhorsesinc, gla paints, eternityrider etc) populating it. I have to ask, WHY didn't you contact anyone on the auction site and let them know about these people? Did you just assume that they informed people of their past or that others would some how know? I assure you that nobody from the Auction horse site would have sent more horses home with anyone they knew was questionable. Prime example of how your help instead of cristicism would be nice - who the heck is Shelly? No, not right - they are doing great but, like all rescues (including SAFE), they need donations and volunteers to stay afloat. Well this would seem logical but every time I turn around I hear more evil things about each and every one of them and it leaves MANY people unsure of who to trust. You know, every group starts somewhere (rumor has it that SAFE was once associated with CBER) and they learn along the way... it would be nice to avoid some of the "learning from mistakes" by getting some help/advice/information from those in the know.
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"Cash"
Jan 3, 2010 15:41:40 GMT -5
Post by TashGaia on Jan 3, 2010 15:41:40 GMT -5
Shelly is yellowhorses.
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eliz
New BB Member
Posts: 13
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"Cash"
Jan 3, 2010 17:20:23 GMT -5
Post by eliz on Jan 3, 2010 17:20:23 GMT -5
Just in terms of logistics, the rescues are packed, AC's funding is shredding. The choice is to participate in an assist with any particular animal or not, but the assistance can be in a variety of ways, not always with donations, purchasing, housing, warehousing, feed, advice, outreach, etc. You decide what you are comfortable with, information and advice are some of the most important commodities.
Networking in this way is an option, and the message board has a porous nature, it's not a brick and mortar facility. We depend upon the participation of a variety of people. The people you mention don't have to go through the message board to obtain horses. They're are 100's of them for free, they're coming through the auction at maybe $60.00 a pop. And it's anybody's decision to leave Alaska Bowtie or Ready Say Go in the killpen or step in.
The message board is a viable alternative and you can participate and help as you see fit. But rather than attack or sneer, pitch in and help with any problems that you observe. Adjustments are being made that will benefit the community, and that will happen a lot faster with help.
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"Cash"
Jan 3, 2010 17:50:47 GMT -5
Post by winterlakesfarm on Jan 3, 2010 17:50:47 GMT -5
KL-
People DID point out the issues with the people who were flocking to that board.
Their posts were deleted.
At that point we stopped trying to tell people about the bottom feeders, stepped back, and waited for the sound of the wreckage. Seems like a 50 car pile up to me........
Mediocre pregnant mares, dead stallions, horses needing re-rescue, people who are taking on more horses than they should and ones they are not qualified to own........how on earth do you defend that? All because getting them off the lot could not possibly be worse than slaughter? After reading from multiple sources what these horses are going through(and that is what they will admit to, trust me there is more) I think there is an argument to be made to the contrary.
The posts I read from threads forwarded to me by people with a conscience, consisted of hoarders, known backyard breeders and teenagers and the occasional voice of reason.
The people who urged caution were rapidly deleted.
I know for a fact you were warned about eternity rider and her previous "care" of her skeletal horses, the fact she stuck SAFE for bills, then turned around and took on ANOTHER horse and tried to get help AGAIN after failing to be able to provide proper care. Yet she posts freely on that board and people were criticised for pointing out the thread on her dead horse on this board.
As for the rest there is no rumor re: SAFE and CBER
SAFE split from CBER early on and re-invented the wheel as far as open doors, open financials, open records re: the horses and their progress, and providing training. There are no skeletons hidden here. It is all in black and white on this board to read.
They do not breed, they do not have stallions breeding their mares due to crappy fence, they do not for that matter have stallions, they do not beg for hay one day and take in horses the next, they do not acquire horses from the meat man only to breed and make more for him in the future, they do not cry "the truck is coming, the truck is coming" to try and get people to take on more than they should, and they certainly are not trying to hide the fact they were once working with CBER.
All rescues have issues because they are run by humans, SAFE deserves credit the mistakes that have been made have been learned from and they are not hidden.
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