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Post by asmo on Jul 27, 2006 12:42:12 GMT -5
I agree with everyone lol. When their babies is the best time to teach most things such as manners. I dont normally leave halters on either but I agree with Jolene. Sometimes you just have to, and it is a good idea to leave a halter on a baby as long as its not got TOO many things to catch it on. Or the other idea is what Schwung suggested. There are baby break away halters if your scared they could get it caught. Just an idea, but if you have RFD TV you should watch some of Clinton Andersons shows and apply them to your baby, he does have some baby shows but they just ran. or you could go to www.clintonanderson.net and if you are able, (there spendy but worth it) you could get the baby video of his. I am not saying his is the only way that works, because its not. but I will say it HELPS majorly. I work with a lot of babies, its my passion. (I train and i prefer the babies over the riding training). just some thoughts. here are some hopefully helpful hints. when working with him side by side kind of keep your elbow out (or on alert) and if you feel like his head gets a little crowdy with you bump your elbow into his head. He wont associate it with you hitting him, he'll think he just ran into it. HOWEVER if he BITES do what they said earlier. just take like the front or back of your hand, in a flat position, and just swat at his head ONLY when he bites. I had a filly last year (yearling now) who would bite HARD, FAST and CONSISTENTLY. It took her longer as she is bred to be feisty just NOT that feisty. I just kept at it, and now she doesnt even nibble on me. If they kick, kick back, or at least thats what I do. I put myself out to them as if I was a herd mate that is over them in the pecking order. when a horse bites another horse, the other horse either runs and scoots outa the way, or bites back. same with kicking. I have a 4 yr old who when he was a colt would kick really hard, but in play, not in a mean way. Well, I didnt want him to kick for EITHER reason so he would kick and I would do it equally hard. so if he just barely got me, I wouldnt flatten him, but I would just swing my foot on his rump. One time he got me really hard in the knee cap and I kicked him equally hard on his butt and he hasnt actually kicked since. 4yrs later, still no kick. just another suggestion. Take it or leave it, whatever works best for you.
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Post by diamondindykin on Jul 27, 2006 12:57:24 GMT -5
I asked this because we subscribe to TB trade mags, and recently one had an article about biting foals...apparently, if you walk into their stall, or if they haven't seen you in awhile, the "bite" means "Hey, welcome back, good to see ya!" So, according to the vet who wrote the article, it's intended to be friendly to people they like. You always hurt the one you love, I guess! Maybe yours just wants to go fast fast fast ;D Well then, I guess I am well loved! ;D Yesterday I found an itchy spot and we had a great mutual grooming session! He is such a doll - I just wish his legs were straight. Monday is now the big day for the trip to the vet and assessment on treatment. Send good thoughts our way! For anyone with experience with wonky legs, he goes out from the knee down, much worse on the left (his mom's bad side ). His right side is seeming to get a little better. The odd part of this for me is that when he has been laying down and just gets up, his legs are almost straight and don't go out until after he has moved around for a bit. Peri ~ I did not realize that your baby had crooked legs Did you have the vet out the day he was born? Whiskey was born with a contracted tendon and the vet put a standing bandage on it when he was about 4 hours old and it straightened right out within a couple of days. Can your baby walk and run normally? I have the Clinton Anderson Foal Handling series if you want to watch it I will bring it to the clinic and you can just mail it back to me when you are done.
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Post by jellybelly on Jul 27, 2006 13:09:29 GMT -5
I put a halter on Whiskey when he was a few days old and left it on him for a long time. I usually NEVER EVER leave halters on my horses and it really scared me to leave one on him but he hated his halter and if I took it off I would never get it back on him. If someone knows a cure for biting....PLEASE let me know! Whiskey is a biter and I can hit him till I am blue in the face and it does no good. The weird thing is that he only bites me He bite me this morning pretty good and I decked him and he didn't do it again but I promise he will try again tomorrow. Clinton Anderson has a wonderful cure for biting and most bad habits but because of my back I can't do it We had a biting colt once. I was filling his mommas water bucket and he came over to see me. I happened to have a cast on my right arm and he was sniffing it. I turned my head and he bit me hard on the bicept. Being my demure little self, I back handed him under the jaw with the cast. It really was a knee jerk reaction and guess what? He hs NEVER bitten anyone EVER again. He is 5 and is the best horse ever now. With colts I think a small slap is not enough. Give him a good whallop, that 3 seconds of his life flashing before his eyes, and he will stop biting. A small slap to a colt is an invitation to play "mouthy boy" games.
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Post by schwung on Jul 27, 2006 13:24:00 GMT -5
Yeah, I should say, if a small slap doesn't work, I would escalate. Never more than once, always very quick, but if I have to make it hard enough to prove my point, I will. Like Asmo pointed out, horses are MUCH harder on each other than we are to them, and I bet if that baby bit another of your horses (and mom wasn't around to protect him), that other horse would let that little baby have it good and hard.
That said, Tessa appears to have the thickest skin ever. She's not a nipper, and she definately KNOWS she's not supposed to bite, so she's sneaky about it, doesn't do it very often except when she is irritated about something, and then she calculates and looks for an opening. Bad girl! And hitting her doesn't seem to even phase her...I joke about needing a cattle prod to get her attention, but its not far from the truth.
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Post by pdevlieg on Jul 27, 2006 13:26:53 GMT -5
Crooked foal and crooked picture! Vet was out when he was born, but he may need surgery to correct it. The photo is from the day he was born and he really hasn't straightened up much on the left side at all, but a bit on the right. Modified to add: He can walk, run, rear, jump, snort and spin just fine now - but he will need work to stay sound as he grows.
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Post by schwung on Jul 27, 2006 13:59:43 GMT -5
poor little guy.
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Post by cat67 on Jul 27, 2006 16:05:03 GMT -5
I always like that rule of thumb which says if a horse does something awful to you (i.e. biting or striking) they should believe they are going to die for 3 seconds. No more. That's about the length of their ability to relate the punishment to the crime. With a baby or a timid horse, you can often get that point across with nothing more than voice and The Flaming Look of Death. I can growl like a rabid beast and have used that growl often.
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Post by qhflicka on Jul 27, 2006 17:28:29 GMT -5
Have you given the little guy with the crooked legs E-Se? (Vit E & Selenium supplement.) We give all our rescue foals 5cc of E-se orally and then repeat the dose a few weeks later. Ask your vet about it. It is absolutely essential in areas like WA where there little to no Selenium in the soil. We give all our calves, baby llamas, kids, piglets BoSe. Many animals you see at the auction are crippled/lame, down on their pasterns from white muscle disease caused by lack of Selenium. A few doses of BoSe get them walking perfectly if you catch it in time.
We picked up a three day old foal and his wild, skinny mother. His legs were very bad, his legs took about eight weeks to straighten out perfectly. His mother toed in very badly in the front and was very cow hocked in the back. My husband got her gentled in about two hours and had her picking up all four feet for him. She got regular doses of E-Se and with good nutrition her legs are PERFECTLY straight. It took a good four months. Also her legs were crooked and rubbing together in places as she was so skinny and lost a lot of muscle mass while she was pregnant out on the range.
My husband was a farrier/trainer for 15 years until a herniated disc forced him to make a career change. Of course he still takes care of our horses hooves and trains our horses. If a horse misbehaves, including biting he immediately uses the 3 second, "your life is over" tactic while making them back up, reprimanding with a deep voice or growling. The element of surprise gets their immediate attention. He then reassures them in a kind loving voice, pats them and only when they behave in the appropriate manner they get praised. His standards are very high and they crave his approval and try to please him because he never praises a half hearted attempt. I think a lot of people including me, praise too easily and this only tends to confuse the horse.
My percheron X gelding, BlackJack during his last trimming yanked his foot away. My husband immediately applied the 3 second technique and 25 seconds later had him behaving, standing still as a statue, and picking up his feet just by snapping his fingers.
My arab gelding is a mischevious and playful boy and when I brought him home a couple of weeks ago he thought he was being cute nipping playfully at me. I had my husband put a stop to it immediately, by making him back up, and made him realise we are not horses and need to be respected as humans. He has not tried it again since. He is still very spirited and sweet and the 3 second technique definitely did not break his spirit or cause him to dislike anyone.
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Post by pdevlieg on Jul 27, 2006 17:46:36 GMT -5
Thanks QHFlicka - I'll discuss that with the vet! A supplement beats surgery in my book any day!
He is currently 1 month old, do you think it would still be effective for him?
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Post by qhflicka on Jul 27, 2006 18:58:53 GMT -5
E-Se should definitely still help. E-Se can also be given subcutaneously, but we prefer giving it orally to foals, because as with any shot, even a regular vitamin shot, there is always a risk of a severe allergic reaction. One can also use vita E & Selenium crumbles, a Horse Health product, sprinkled daily on the grain ration, but I do not think it would be as effective as E-Se. Excessive amounts of Selenium may be toxic, so see what dosage your vet recommends. Maybe do some research on the internet and see what other horse owners/breeders have to say about E-Se. Your little guy is adorable. What beautiful markings he has.
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Post by diamondindykin on Jul 27, 2006 19:58:03 GMT -5
Did the vet say what caused his legs to be crooked? I think that he is adorable and I love him anyway!!
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Post by namaste on Jul 27, 2006 22:26:02 GMT -5
You have to be careful with Selenium as mentioned above. You can have your vet pull blood and the test is only $26.00....quite inexpensive when you think about it!(Especially when you consider what can happen with Se toxicity)
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Post by asmo on Jul 27, 2006 22:30:37 GMT -5
I wish it was that inexpensive here. It costs about $85 bucks to get a blood test here. (and we have a selenium difficient valley.
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Post by perchknight on Jul 28, 2006 0:30:54 GMT -5
LOL the mental pictures of someone growling at a foal. I love it!
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Post by fancyherd@gala's on Jul 28, 2006 9:59:13 GMT -5
PD - check on the long term braces designed especially for this application.... Dr Black @ Pioneer Vets 209-847-5951.
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