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Post by Sara on May 9, 2010 13:17:20 GMT -5
Baxter looks so cute in dressage tack!
I just have to add here that I have seen Jaime work many, many horses and have never once seen her use a handling technique that involved cutting up a horses face or causing them pain. That just isn't her style. But sometimes these rescues do require firm, but fair, handling.
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shekaberry
SAFE Volunteer
SAFE Volunteer Coordinator
Posts: 1,521
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Post by shekaberry on May 9, 2010 13:35:11 GMT -5
Given that Baxter was a stud with questionable handling and can be pushy, the chain was certainly appropriate for the initial lunging session. The way it was looped under his chin meant that it would only be applied if he tried to go buck-wild, which he didn't. It hasn't been used on him since as he has proved himself to be quite sensible. Rope halters are far crueler than a chain in my opinion since they exert almost constant pressure on the poll (a very sensitive area) and nose unless they are tied pretty loose, so tugging on them can be painful to the horse. And don't get me started on people who turn their horses out in them The only safe halter is a leather one, again in my opinion.
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Post by kdunham on May 9, 2010 15:35:35 GMT -5
They are all use full tools in my opinion. I've lunged with stud chains before, I use them when I am ponying a horse, and I use them when I vet in at endurance rides. I like to tie my horses with rope halters because they don't break if they decide to pull back or do something stupid. Right now I like to lunge my young horses with a rawhide loop under the halter. I run my line thru the halter loop and attach it to that. Then it doesn't get tight from the weight of the rope like chains sometimes do but the horse wont lean on it because its rough. After Apollo had thousands of dollars in surgery and was on stall rest with hand walking I wouldn't be caught dead without my stud chain for his daily walks.
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Post by winterlakesfarm on May 9, 2010 15:55:26 GMT -5
I agree it is not the tool but the hands that are using it. Even the mildest of equipment can be punishing in the wrong hands.....And I also agree I have never seen anyone be unfairly harsh with the horses in SAFE's care.
Stud chains have their place and used appropriately with good timing and feel are just another tool. Just like the mildest of snaffles can be punishing in the wrong hands- so can a rope halter or anything else for that matter. A dressage whip can be a subtle reinforcement of your leg or can be truly punishing. It is the human part of the equation that determines the impact on the animal. None of my horses have any fear of a whip or chain or anything else for that matter- none are head shy and all accept correction without losing focus on the task at hand.
I have never seen the horses at Jaime's place be treated with anything but fairness and kind manner.
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Post by tagalong on May 12, 2010 15:15:47 GMT -5
To be fair, I have lunged many pushy or potentially runaway horses with a chain and never caused an injury or a scar or apparently any deep seated painful memories.... as others have said, it is not necessarily the tool but the hands that are using it ... whether it is a chain or a rope halter or anything else... Is Baxter W/T/C now or just getting the hang of it? And would he be suitable for a re-rider?
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Post by schwung on May 12, 2010 18:46:19 GMT -5
Hi tagalong - Baxter will W/T/C - but he doesn't really understand the aids really well at this point. You have to use a lot of encouragement to get him forward into a trot or canter and then getting him to keep it....I guess if you are going to have a green horse a lazy one is better than a hot one! Like I said...he doesn't know much, but seems pretty safe and quiet and is quite naturally balanced, I enjoyed riding him and I rarely like riding the greenies. Its really how confident you are and how comfortable you are putting basics on him because he doesn't have any really. But I really don't have any concerns that he won't come along quite easily with training, my only concern remains how he might do under saddle around other horses. He will be leaving here soon to go to a foster home who is going to school him and also trail ride him out on Bridle Trails and hopefully he will do well while he waits for a permanent home.
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lyn51
Junior BB Member
SAFE Volunteer
Posts: 91
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Post by lyn51 on May 12, 2010 21:07:23 GMT -5
The more I am around this horse, the more I like him. He needs some training and "finishing." His ground manners aren't bad but they could use some improvement. He has become more engaged and interactive since he has been at SAFE. I think he has potental, but who ever adopts him will need to put in some time with training and just miles of riding.
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Post by tagalong on Jul 11, 2010 18:58:48 GMT -5
Any more updates on how Baxter is doing?
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Post by schwung on Aug 19, 2010 16:35:09 GMT -5
Baxter left today for a 3 month foster-to-adopt trial down in Spanaway with a local 4H leader. He is looking fabulous and while still green, going well under saddle. He has also gotten a lot less aggressive towards neighboring horses so hopefully it was just a matter of needing a bit longer to get over those stallion behaviors.
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Post by schwung on Sept 21, 2010 0:20:13 GMT -5
Unfortunately, this adoption is not going to work out for Baxter. While he has done well under saddle, both in the arena and out on the trails (even with other horses), he is aggressive towards the neighboring horse which is causing problems at feeding time despite a fence between them. Also, he has started pinning his ears and swinging his butt at the foster mom when she goes to catch him. While he has not actually kicked at anyone, her daughter is intimidated by him and it just isn't going to be a good fit for him. This is a dominant horse that needs a firmer hand. There is a soft side to Baxter, but it takes a while to see it. I still think he will come around in time, but whomever adopts him needs to establish clear boundaries and clear lines of respect with Baxter. He will be coming back to SAFE this weekend.
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Post by Sara on Sept 26, 2010 22:05:16 GMT -5
I rode Baxter in a lesson today. Like Dexter, he doesn't know much (and is somewhat nervous about whips & crops). But... he's willing to try and quite fun to ride (big, comfy trot!). He's not very fit right now (which is understandable considering how wasted he was when he came in!) so we didn't work very hard (a little walk, trot and canter). I really, really, really like this guy a lot and look forward to working with him more. This guy definitely is not yet convinced that people are friends. He's a hard worker but not a snuggly guy. I think that side of him is in there and will eventually shine through.
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Post by schwung on Sept 26, 2010 22:09:45 GMT -5
Sara, I counted three 'really's in that sentence...I'm thinking you REALLY like him. ;D
Seriously, you guys looked great today. I wish I wasn't busy and had a chance to get some pictures and video of the two of you. Next time!
I have also pretty much figured Baxter out. He is a total chicken. When you go into his paddock and he does his grumpy face, swing his butt towards you routine, I got after him and swung the lead rope at him, and he ran away from me with his tail between his legs. Repeated that two more times and quite abruptly his demeanor changed to turning towards me with his ears up..."Ok, ok, I'll let you catch me! But please don't swing that rope at me anymore, it scares me!". He's obviously been mistreated in his life, but he's not a mean horse.
However, he's still a studdy horse, and nothing is going to fix that...he was next to Lexi who was in heat and I caught her with her butt up against the fence and him seriously contemplating mounting her fence or no fence, so I put him next to Calamity. This morning I came out to one board kicked in two pieces...However, while slightly distracted by the other horses in the arena today, he was good under saddle.
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Post by Sara on Sept 30, 2010 10:08:38 GMT -5
I worked with Baxter again last night. I think Jaime's got him totally fixed now because both times I've worked with him he was Mr. Easytocatch. That said, he's not exactly a snuggly horse... he just has an air about him that he's waiting for you to be mean to him. He likes to have his mane scritched and his face scritched... and his ears. He took full advantage of having his rainsheet off and being turned out in a slightly damp paddock and was covered forehead, to tail, in dirt so he got a nice long grooming. I've discovered that his evasion is to walk off when he doesn't want to do what you want to do. We played this little game about picking up feet and about girthing. He's pretty easy to bridle but he suddenly becomes right-ear shy when you get the bit in his mouth. The girthing in particular made him quite nervous... so I had it pretty loose as we walked to the arena... tightened a notch, tied up his bridle and put the lunge line on him, tightened a notch... walked over to where I wanted to lunge... tightened a notch... switched the lunge to the other side... tightened a notch and finally, before I got on I got it up another notch or two. When I rode him on Sunday he was nervous about the mounting block but I really prefer to mount from the block rather than the ground. I just can't imagine me heaving my weight into the saddle from the ground has to be comfy for their spines! So, we tried again tonight and I was able to mount from the side of the block anyway... we'll keep working on that. Under saddle he was a good boy. I am trying to slowly introduce him to the idea of me carrying the whip. He is nervous about the lunge whip and the dressage whip both. So, at Andrea's suggestion I've been picking up the dressage whip at the end of my ride... not using it, just carrying it. He's been tought voice cues rather than leg cues- so he trots if you cluck at him and canters if you kiss at him. We'll be working on learning leg cues and also that contact doesn't mean stop or slow down. I kept it short and sweet again last night because he just gets SO sweaty at even light work (and he has very little muscle tone). But, he's got three great gaits. His trot feels very powerful beneath you- even now. I can't wait to see what happens when he really starts using his body. I cantered him a little more last night and his canter is AWESOME- extremely easy to sit and very comfy.
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Post by schwung on Oct 6, 2010 20:08:51 GMT -5
Myself, Dr. Hannah and our farrier Daphne have all been subpeonaed to appear in court on October 25th in reference to Baxter's case. I have plenty of photos I have submitted as evidence and am happy to speak as to poor Baxter's condition and recovery. I will certainly provide a report after the hearing!
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Post by schwung on Oct 23, 2010 21:35:13 GMT -5
More photos and a video of Baxter! Sara's been working through a few forward issues with Baxter...he's been doing a little bucking at being asked to go forward. I got him last night and worked through some of it, and today she had a very good lesson on him. He tends to be a little sulky about having a lot of leg used on him, but if he gets sulky, more leg just makes him buck. So the approach the trainer is working on right now is ask with the leg, if he ignores it he gets a verbal cue to go forward, then a tap of the whip on her leg (sound not touch) or she swishes the whip in the air so he can see and hear it. Only if he ignores the "warning" aids does he get a stronger leg aid. This seemed to work well today. He's not a bad horse, but he does have a little bit of a stubborn side in him, especially about having contact on the right rein. He did try to buck a few times today, but Sara did a great job today correcting him quickly, then it was over and as soon as he moved forward he got lots of good boys. Here are some really nice photos during and after their ride today. He has really beefed up and is a superb looking horse. Still not very fit and needs more muscle, but he is very well put together and let's face it....total equine eye candy! sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs464.ash2/73725_10150276635110262_389354740261_15216531_8102978_n.jpg[/img]
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