Hoof Supplement rec?

[wildwoman]

I have a 5 year old TB mare that has thrown a shoe 3 times in the past year- within a week or two of new shoes. 2 different farriers, and out of our 5 horses-she is the only one to have lost a shoe-so I am thinking it is her feet not the shoers. What supplements are effective for hoof growth and toughening up?
Thanks!
Lisa

[cricket]

I recommend the Horse Guard supplements (either the regular vitamin/mineral or the mega-dose vitamin/mineral). They aren't specifically for hooves, but I've noticed a big difference in my horses' hooves and coat when they are on it.

Their hooves grow very fast when on this supplement. So much so that my farrier and I were trying to figure out why they were needing to be trimmed so often and the only thing that had changed was that I had begun giving them Horse Guard every day, consistently. I also noticed a big difference in their skin and coat condition. They look very sleek and shiny on the supplement.

[qhflicka]

I like Next Level Hoof Fluid.
It contains Methionine 2000mg/per one oz
Lysine 2000mg
MSM 1000mg
Zinc 53mg
Biotin 20mg
Copper 18mg

It has molasses in it, which my horses like.
I would give more Biotin though.
Gelatin also helps a LOT!!

My husband is a retired farrier and this is what he recommends.

We bought a 2000lb Percheron (Black Beauty) with only 2 inches of broken, weak, split and chipped hooves. These supplements along with an EPSM diet high in fat helped his hooves grow out strong. It did take about 5 months though.

My Appaloosa has really weak white hooves. Rain Maker did absolutely nothing to improve his hooves.
We now use HOOF SAVER (with collagen) - made by Farnam. The results after just two applications were unbelievable!! I apply it to the hooves with my hands and rub it in well, so my hands benefit too. Great Stuff.

[qhflicka]

I googled Horse guard. Looks good too. It also has Selenium, which is needed for horses in WA and OR where there is no Selenium in the soil. (Se is needed in trace amounts, so make sure to check for it in other supplements, loose minerals, grain etc - an overdose is harmful)

www.horseguard.com/shop/index.php?app=ccp0&ns=catshow&ref=Hoof+Treatment

[hooti4me]

I am one that feeds Dynamite products. Has everything you need. I don't add a hoof supplement with this product.
SOmetimes you have to look beyond just throwing a hoof supplement at them, it could possibly be the shoeing job.
Just read your post again, young TB, I would get her on a good Vitamin/mineral supplement, like Dynamite, Horse Guard, Northwest..etc. See if that makes a difference and then add the hoof supplement
What is her diet like?

[wildwoman]

2 times a day she gets: 2 pounds of beet pulp, after thats soaked I add 1 pound rice bran, & 2 pounds complete feed pellets, 2x a day orchard grass hay and free choice loose minerals.

[bsnlark]

CORNUCRESCINE

Farrier recommended, not the supplement crap/ er stuff that is sold by all those other hoof companys for this particular type of problem...
It comes in a can and has the consistency of shoe polish. It stinks, but u put in on the coronet band with a toothbrush once a day. It promotes foot growth by increasing the blood flow to the hoof.
I had to email order it, couldnt find it in any of the area farm stores. I think it was thru allvet, but if u google the stuff u will find the link .

I have started using this on 28 yr old QH mare Buckwheat. She has terrible hooves and very flat soles... She has to wear shoes on the front. She hasnt been able to have shoes on for 3 mos now. We tried hot glueing shoes on, she was in 7th heaven with the comfort. That only lasted 2 days. Glue stayed on the hoof but not the shoes. She puts on a good show, walks like shes on glass, but once outside the fence line she can move like a kite caught in the wind.....especially when there is food nearby...but hook her up to a lead and instantly crippled for life

NOT

[qhflicka]

I have one like Buckwheat! Ha!Ha!

My Pete is a Tb/paint mix that knows how to fake an injury. You can put a halter on him no problem. He walks out just fine.
Gallops around the pasture like a lunatic.

But just SHOW him a SADDLE!! Instantly he is crippled, and it gets worse and worse, even the sad look on his face, until you put him back in his pasture LOL!
Nichole (LadyRebelJet - a member of SAFE) who owned him before the girl we got Pete from, came to visit us, with a beginner friend to ride Pete. Nichole's friend would not ride Pete because she fell for his act and felt sorry for him.
Pete would do this to Nichole too!

We have been riding Pete for the past year, and he stopped the habit of faking an injury. He actually enjoys being ridden now - but lightly of course.

He is a 25+ year old, was a hard worked ranch horse who learned a thing or two to get out of work. He was vet checked and there was nothing wrong with his back leg, both by Nichole's vet and by ours.

I had read about horses faking injury to get out of work but I never thought I'd be owned by one. Seeing is believing!!

[cutiepiepmu]

if you have a quality farrier who is doing a good job, and you are consistant with trims/shoes that is the first step.

BUT - a complete diet overhaul may be needed. It is my experience that it boils down ot balance in the diet - not supplementing. Looking at the pasture, the hay, the grains being fed, and all supplements will let you know any over or under supplemental issues. If you can post current diet - including brands/amounts per day given - incluing hay/forage - amonts per day i can give you some thoughts

ohhh - lol I am an equine nutritionist if that means anything!!

Sara

[crownkorhelequest]

Without question... Millenium Gold! it's inexpensive and has a lot of biotin in it!!!! All my ponies are on it!

[cricket]

Dr. Eleanor Kellen's book on equine supplements is really good for any supplement questions. She's an equine nutritionist/vet. The book is published by the Horse Journal and has a lot of great information. The book is called The Horse Journal Guide to Equine Supplements and Nutraceuticals and can be purchased through the Horse Journal website. Dr. Kellon also has a website with a lot of good info.

www.drkellon.com

www.horse-journal.com

[cutiepiepmu]

Everyone has thoughts on what is perfect for their horses - but what I have found is that before you consider a product - look at how bio-available it is - meaning, how much is actually used by your horse and is able to be absorbed - AND does it end up over supplementing things already in the diet.

I have to disagree on Millinium gold being superior unfortunately. Compared side by side to several other products available in this area, it came in just above NW supplement which was at the VERY bottom. This was based on Lab analysis of individual products to see how they actually compared to what the label stated - which was done by a collegue a couple years ago(which if I can find the specific results I will post them for everyone!). The idea was to find out what products use high enough quality minerals/vitamins/ingredients to be utilized by the horse. The quality of the ingredients does make a huge difference. Unlike products for people - animal supplements are not required to tell us anything - and really have no quality standard that they HAVE to meet(although many companies do have strict guidelines of their own). which means - the minerals they are using could come from the gravel out front if they wanted to!

no two horses are the same - which is why there is not a single bagged feed that we all use and have perfect results with Biotin is just one small part of making up strong sound feet - although it is the one ingredient that gets the most recognition. In most cases, if you start with looking at the nutritional value of the hay and forage from pasture, - then look at any nutritional gaps from blood work(which not eveyrone wants to do!) and build on that filling in any gaps and shortcomings from there - you end up with a strong, healthy horse on all counts from the inside out.

I personally only have 1 topical product that I give much weight to. That is Keratex. When used properly it can help hold the foot together and keep moisture out during the super wet parts of the year. If it is an oil based product or like lotion - it doesn't really do anything. As soon as the foot rubs on something or gets a little wet, the product wipes off. Also - any product that has similar ingredients to human finger nail polish will not let the foot breath and can cause problems over time.

Proper farrier care and a farrier putting shoes on correctly also plays a part at how well the horse will hold the shoe. Also - some horses are just more prone to clipping the sides of the foot and pulling the shoes off. My girl Malibu(ShireX) has some of the hardest hoof walls around, but broke te tip of her navicular 2 years ago and to keep her sound needs a special shoe on her rear foot. To keep her balanced we generally do 2 back shoes(1 with a wedge pad) - if I don't keep bell boots on her, the clumsy girl will trip herself and pull a shoe ina day or two after she gets done!!! Is the diet lackign - ummm no Bloodwork, great feet, and her dapples confirm that. Is it a case of bad farrier? No - Love my guy and he takes so much time to make sure things are perfect. It is simply a case of a very clumsy horse lol.

look at all things surrounding the horse and make a lifelong dietary goal based on that. Look at the horses condition, age, overall wellness and shortcomings.... look at the diet - how good is the forage/hay, what supplements and grains do you feed? do they compliment or oversupplement - ORdo you oversupplement some things and completely pass over others??? It all plays a part... and even when you think you have it just right - it may need tweeking.

Because this is my full time job lol - I probably think about all the details alot more than most - but what it boils down to is that choosing high quality feed products, a great farrier and a little luck and you end up with the results you are looking for!

Sara

[wildwoman]

I really appreciate the feedback from everyone! In researching further-some products give exact amounts of each supplement and others just have a list of what minerals are in it-eeek-ok not going there-BUT...ie. what amount of biotin should I be looking for-a equine nutrition book I have says 15mg would help the feet-most supps have 20 mg-others 50+mg.....others more-how much and which amino acids work in conjunction and should I also give a digestive aid? Would a liquid suspension be more readily absorbed?
To be fair-the last time she lost a shoe was when I took her to the National Forest and we did at least 20 rocky river crossings.

[zebradreams07]

To know how much to supplement you need to know how much your horse is getting now, and how available it is in the supplement. The best way to do this (if you can afford it) is to have blood work done, start supplementing based on the numbers, then run the blood again and see if the levels are where you want. And like Sara said with some horses it just can't be helped. If you have a horse that oversteps behind, and manages to do so around the bell boots, chances are they are going to pull shoes and the only way to prevent it is to keep them barefoot. That was the case with my old Appy mare; she finally pulled them so many times that there wasn't enough wall to nail them to, so we kept her barefoot and used boots when she had to be on rocky ground.

[qhflicka]

cutiepiepmu stated "If it is an oil based product or like lotion - it doesn't really do anything. As soon as the foot rubs on something or gets a little wet, the product wipes off. "

Rainmaker washes off after a few minutes, especially with the irrigation water on the pasture.

Hoof Saver (with collagen) is a cream BUT it is quickly absorbed and the hoof wall looks great for about a week with one application. I usually apply it twice a week. It has made a huge difference.
You should see what it has done for my nails!!
It really does work well. I do apply a generous amount each time and rub it in well.
The hoof retains a healthy appearance even in wet pasture.