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Post by drsgjunky on Sept 30, 2008 9:02:31 GMT -5
Dr. Bob mentioned to me quite a while ago that quite a few horses in the area have not done well on Reber's hay...diarhea is the main symptom. I have not heard if they have pinpointed a cause or not. This has been a problem (diarrhea) for some time at several barns that feed straight orchid (no mix) . My horse had the same issue and he's never had diarrhea in the past. I switched him to a timothy/grass mix and he was over the problem in two days. The orchid we were using (& barns I checked) did not come from Rebers. I checked with my Vet who said this was pretty common and felt the hay was to rich. He recommended a change to grass and/or Timothy mix. The only issue with the diarrhea was a very small chance of dehydration. I checked with various feed stores and found the orchid was third cutting (the richest). It's very bright blue/green in color and very clean (pure). It's the best cutting (like most hay) but it's also the richest. It worked for him - your mileage may vary.
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Post by leahlady on Sept 30, 2008 9:31:06 GMT -5
Jodycat- the problem with Alfalfa - besides that it was never meant to be a horse feed - is the calcium phosphorus ratio. Alfalfa is upwards of 4:1, and a horse needs a diet of between 1:1 and 2:1. Grass hay is about 1.5:1. When feeding mostly alfalfa you have to supplement this ratio by adding phosphorus, in the past people would feed sweet feed, COB, oats, or rice bran. Now you can buy vitamins that are formulated for alfalfa-only diets.
Alfalfa is high-protein, high-energy, and harder on the digestive system. Horses love it because it is sweet, and I was forced to feed it to Lady last winter when she flat out refused to eat anything else. It was definitely a last resort for me!
The simple way to think about it is that horses eat grass by nature. The closest you can keep them to that, the better! All of this other stuff we feed them nowadays ... imho ... just costs extra money!!!!!! I have a reductive approach to feeding... as much wonderful hay as they will eat, supplement with vitamins, and add a concentrate if they need it. Unless you have a horse that cannot maintain/stay healthy on a simple diet for medical reasons.
There is no higher calorie concentrate than corn oil - build him up to 2 cups a day and he will put on the pounds in no time! Blanketing them also helps a lot.
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Post by leahlady on Sept 30, 2008 9:32:12 GMT -5
Coconut- a syringe always works best! They have plastic ones at Bartells, otherwise a cleaned out wormer tube works great!
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Post by ecaitlynn on Sept 30, 2008 9:36:49 GMT -5
I've got a question regarding alfalfa. Right now my 4-year-old gelding is getting alfalfa and you are right -- he LOVES it. I am now supplementing with rolled oats (plus supplements for joints). Is this going to be balanced enough? I've been told since he's a young horse alfalfa is okay. Should I ask her to mix it up with hay? He doesn't really like hay all that much when compared to alfalfa, but I would think he would eat it.
Any advice would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Beth Thompson
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Buena
SAFE Volunteer
No horse will ever teach you as much as your first horse.
Posts: 1,929
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Post by Buena on Sept 30, 2008 10:40:01 GMT -5
Jodycat- the problem with Alfalfa - besides that it was never meant to be a horse feed - is the calcium phosphorus ratio. Alfalfa is upwards of 4:1, and a horse needs a diet of between 1:1 and 2:1. Grass hay is about 1.5:1. When feeding mostly alfalfa you have to supplement this ratio by adding phosphorus, in the past people would feed sweet feed, COB, oats, or rice bran. Now you can buy vitamins that are formulated for alfalfa-only diets. Top that off with the fact that phosphorus is NOT palatable to horses and then you end up with a tough way of getting the right ratio into them on their own. The best way to do any feed regime is balancing forages. I recently had my hay tested and then the LMF rep (Harris Statema) ran my numbers for me (for free) and came up with the absolute easiest feeding routine I have had in years. And the cheapest for me, too. I will have to supplement differently for the weanlings we will be getting than what Buena will get, but I was amazingly surprised at how little I will have to tweak the diets for all of them!
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Post by cat67 on Sept 30, 2008 13:58:51 GMT -5
Kind of on both topics, I have a mare that will have diarrhea if you feed anything BUT alfalfa. Weird but true! Right now, on alfalfa and Allegra Senior, no problems.
I am an alfalfa fan, always will be. The horses love it, they maintain weight well on it, and there's very little waste. My horses think grass hays are bedding...they pee on them to tell me what they think of them! Especially local. Just forget it. There's no saving money around here with the princesses...
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Post by huskiesnhorses on Sept 30, 2008 14:14:13 GMT -5
Kind of on both topics, I have a mare that will have diarrhea if you feed anything BUT alfalfa. Weird but true! My horses think grass hays are bedding...they pee on them to tell me what they think of them! Especially local. Just forget it. There's no saving money around here with the princesses... I have the same passive aggressive horses you do! Little thankless stinkers!
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Post by winterlakesfarm on Sept 30, 2008 15:26:19 GMT -5
Coconut- I just poured it over their grain and they ate it.....it must not taste all that bad but you could certainly use a dose syringe if she won't eat it with her grain.
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myhorsefaith
Junior BB Member
Run, baby, run... I miss you.
Posts: 71
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Post by myhorsefaith on Sept 30, 2008 15:40:05 GMT -5
more anecdotes: 2 of my horses cannot tolerate rich orchard grass. I've known 5 in total since my living in WA who had this problem. The leafy blue green stuff is bad news for them.
I've been told several theories. #1 the late cutting is too rich. #2 the hay is dirtier now than in years past #3 there is some sort of fertilizer that helps the grass be that blue-green color, which can act like a laxative for some (told by a hay guy).
In any case, removing orchard has been the answer every time. I've managed them on the zeo stuff (didnt see huge difference), Bio Sponge did ok, as did psyllium. Probiotics and yeast helped, but did not solve. Deworming galore did not help. The real answer was to change the hay.
And now, my horses are getting a 60/40 mix (alfalfa to orchard)...and the 2 who have issues have NO issues now.
Alfalfa I think gets a bad rep...and it is true that for many horses, it isn't a good feed and should be avoided. But it does have its benefits. I used to be very anti-alfalfa, and now I'm not so much.
My horses are looking great- they are bright and happy- makes me happy. They also get a grain mix (alfalfa-oats with Diamond v yeast, selenium yeast, flax and Remission). I do supplement their rich alfalfa/orchard hay with 1st cutting orchard for munch value. they rarely touch it- but it is there in their stalls at night if they want it.
But, as always, listen and work with your vet- which it sounds like you are doing.
Good luck!
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Post by ecaitlynn on Oct 1, 2008 10:09:20 GMT -5
Dixon peed on the grass I bought for him . . . . . didn't like it.
Beth Thompson
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